SBSG #4: Ab Uno Disce Omnes
Why is Tigh seeing Ellen in Caprica 6? Is 6 a spiritual being? What is the hidden meaning of the book that Roslin and Adama are reading, Searider Falcon? Where is Starbuck? Let’s see if Zina and Jeff can answer these questions in this episode of the Secrets of Battlestar Galactica. We also received our very first voice feedback. Feel free to join the conversation in the comments section of the site, and remember to review us on iTunes. You can send wav or mp3 files to zgomezliss at gmail.com. And you can follow us on Twitter (Zina_rsn and JeffLiss):
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Hey there Zina and Jeff!
First and foremost, I just (really just half an hour ago) stumbled upon your podcast and have to say (judging from that one episode I heard, #4) it’s a really great job you’re doing there!
Now, two points I’d lik to make about the topics discussed:
1. Searider Falcon. Love your thoughts about it and the anagram idea, especially ‘read roslin face’. Whereas ‘read’ is also an anagram for ‘dear’, so I’d like ‘roslin dear face’ better. Why? I personally see the book as a metaphor for Roslin’s and Adama’s relationship. For Bill the relationship as it is is wonderful and he doesn’t want to risk it by any means, not even by trying to get it some step forward (aka reading the final chapter), for example by finally telling her he loves her. This would make complete sense to me in the light of spoilers I read about next week’s episode (Can’t say more without spoiling it, I might put something on my blog though).
For Roslin asking him to read it to the end, this makes sense to me as she’s perfectly aware of her condition and her impending death. So she’s got nothing to lose anymore but everything to gain from this relationship. I hope that’s not too incoherent.
2. Starbuck. For me the question never arose whether she was on the baseship or not, I always kind of assumed she’d be on Galactica. In the last episode ‘Guess What’s Coming To Dinner’, Roslin asks her to get Captain Agathon (Helo) and he accompanies her to the baseship (which is mentioned in the latest episode by Adama in his angry-daddy speech to Athena). Another hint that Starbuck’s really on Galactica I see in the fact that Tigh actually mentions her to Adama in the CIC (She seems to be the CAG now and has problems maintaining routine with half a wing missing, asking for the fleet to fly tight formation). And I’m rather sure the ’she’ or ‘her’ refers to Roslin (remember Tigh’s and Adama’s fistfight, “she’s not a frakking woman, she’s the president”). As for the ‘family’-thing, I’m rather sure he’s referring to Roslin here as well, seeing that a loved one can pretty much also be seen as ‘family’ in some sense (family is where you feel home, safe and secure which absolutely qualifies. Remember the marvelous scene in ‘Six of One’ where they are just like an old married couple? When Roslin starts losing her hair?).
And, yes, I’m a Adama/Roslin-shipper
Well, my two cents, keep up the good work!
melancholygeek
About Searider Falcon: On second thought, ‘read’ instead of ‘dear’ also makes kind of sense: ‘read, face roslin’.
I’m putting way too much thought in this.
Something’s being bugging me about this thing with the captive Caprica Six. Everyone on the ship is assuming Tigh was involved, but if I see his reaction, I’m not sure. I sent in feedback about Six, but after sending it and hearing SBSG #4 I remembered the odd things happening in Six Degrees of Separation. (I think it was that episode).
There Baltar was fed up with Six in his head and decided to ignore her, and she actually vanished. Another copy of Six turned up producing a photo of him tinkering with the defense mainframe. After his confession, Gaeta finds out the photo is a fraud and the copy of Six vanished into thin air again, only leaving a pair of glasses on the table in the CIC. I didn’t think much of it first, but it might be a very important clue.
Could it be that the child Six was talking about in Baltars head, that would be hers and Baltars, is starting to ‘materialize’ now? Tigh might indeed having nothing to do with it, and the writers may point to a Marian theme in the story.
In one of the anagrams you were referring to Aerilon. Someone coming from Aerilon. Baltar is from Aerilon, right?
Didn’t we see Starbuck at the end of the episode? She was standing with Lee as Adama left the ship.
@Denis: True. But, apart from a glance which might be misinterpreted, there was no interaction between her and anybody else but Adama. She was there before in a hallway conversation with Adama, but again, no interaction with anyone else. But yes, had she been a vision, Lee most probably would have reacted to his fathers ‘What do you hear Stabuck?’ lines.
@Taquoriaan Jun 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 am
“Something’s being bugging me about this thing with the captive Caprica Six. Everyone on the ship is assuming Tigh was involved, but if I see his reaction, I’m not sure. ”
Taquoriaan…. I thought the same thing, but then I remembered - In the show they do not think that Cylon skinjobs can not reproduce. Thigh knows he is Cylon… he is now confused - how can Six be pregnant when they are both Cylons? Or so they think.
yes… Baltar is from Aerelon.
Interesting…
@Rich
Or they can get offspring because Tigh is a different Cylon. Which would mean that Helo must be a Cylon too, since he has a child with Athena…
[...] SPOILERS UNLESS MARKED OTHERWISE) I just stumbled upon a very nice podcast over at sqpn, The Secrets Of Battlestar Galactica with Zina and Jeff, two BSG geeks like myself (and probably you) that discuss the latest episodes [...]
@Rich & Taq
I have been wondering about the exact sane thing. It’s been a given that cylons among each other can’t reproduce. That humans and cylons work together has been proven so far by Athena/Helo AND Tyrol/Cally. On the other hand I guess it’s safe to assume that the Final Five are completely different to the Significant Seven. It seems to me that there’s only one model to each of the Final Five which means, no resurrection for them and a lot of other rules not to apply.
Personally I think the Final Five are kind of Hybrids, perhaps the only omni-sentient ones. And there are no rules about Hybrid-cylon reproduction capabilities, right?
And the Sig7 are programmed not to think about the Final5, So they are obviously way different (seeing how even a boxed model is still present in the Sig7’s thoughts, even Cavil’s).
My two cents.
melancholygeek
@Melancholy & Taq
Good points.. it is apparent that the final 5 are very differnt…
especially since.. (1) He was in the first Cylon War (see battlestar wiki) unless this is a planted background and his service records altered by the Cylons. Further he met Adama about 20 years after the war, and was reinstated some years prior the attack on the colonies. Talk about a sleeper agent!
This would mean that the Cylons, or a group of them had perfected organic machinery during or just after the war… interesting? We know that a group of Cylons already split off (Razor) so splinter groups among the Cylons would not be uncommon.
Knowing what we know (thru spoilers) about the storyline of Caprica… I have some interesting hypothesis about the Final Five. Perhaps they are the ORIGINAL Five, created early on, or before the first war.. their programming/memories/personality downloads, very diferent from the later 7 in that they are based on REAL humans (of 70+ years ago)and not an amalgamation of various personality traits?
Another thing (sorry at work so disjointed thought process here)…. Per the Anagram of Searider Falcon… Tigh is also from Aerelon (see Battlestar Wiki). Interesting… both he AND Baltar and Dualla
I’ve been meaning to tell you that Adama’s name is actually Hebrew. In Hebrew, H’adamah, means the earth/mud/dirt/clay (”H’” means “the”). And the first human being was H’adam, the man, the person, the Adam.
So, I just call him Commander Dirt.
Parallels between the Old Testament and BSG?
The name is just so striking to me I just had to point it out.
It’s something to think about.
~Sam
@Taquoriaan Jun 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 am
“Something’s being bugging me about this thing with the captive Caprica Six. Everyone on the ship is assuming Tigh was involved, but if I see his reaction, I’m not sure. ”
I know! Sure, he doesn’t deny Adama’s accusation, but I think it’s because he’s in shock. The question is why — because he knows he’s a Cylon or because nothing really happened?
I think you’re right — the final five are different in a variety of ways, one being their ability to reproduce. Tyrol and Cally had a baby (Nicholas), and my theory is that Helo is a Cylon, so that would be another example (Hera). Here’s an interesting though: what if the *purpose* of the final five is to reproduce? After all, if the Tigh/Six thing is true and my Helo theory proves correct, it would mean that 3 of the final 5 have produced offspring. So…what about the other two? Will Tory become pregnant by Baltar? And what about Starbuck and Anders? Maybe Humans and Cylons are both evolving to their respective next “levels” of being. The Cylons are gaining the ability to reproduce and perpetuate their race, while Humans — led by Starbuck — are on the verge of becoming something entirely new.
Follow the Ship of Lights!
Zina, thanks for the podcast. It’s fun to hear others who think about BSG as much as I do.
Like I posted on Ustream, I’m LDS and intrigued to hear more of your thoughts on how Mormonism plays a role in the new series. I’m familiar with Larson and how he wrote some LDS theology into the old series, but it seems the connections have not been so obvious in this incarnation. Most of the Mormon connections to the new one are devices carried over from the old one, IMO. Anyway, I’d love to talk about that once it comes up. I’m no LDS scholar, but I’ve been Mormon my whole life so I’m pretty familiar with where we’re coming from by now. Don’t worry, I don’t bite, and I won’t come knock on your door at 8am Saturday morning.
Anyway,I’ll put my theory down now that I’m not convinced the “new” four cylons are cylons. While they think they are, the evidence is to support it is circumstantial. I’ll admit, I can’t explain why the Raider spared Anders, but can anyone explain why cylons who are programmed to protect the F5 tortured Tigh on NC to the point of plucking out one of his eyes?
Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, how would Tigh impregnate Six if they’re both cylons? Last of all, and this is my real reach, in the teaser for next week, D’Anna tells Roslin she’s one of the five. If the context was correct, and she is one of the five, I don’t think the last one will be revealed so un-suspensefully. Roslin may be one of the five, but the other four are not. Follow?
I’m probably way off, and missing some obvious point. My wife is pretty sure that it’s fact that there is only one model each of the final five. I thought it was still speculation at this point.
Can’t wait for the next episode. C’ya
Actually, I don’t think D’Anna tells Roslin she’s a Cylon. We see Lucy Lawless speak her line: “You know about the final five, but you don’t know you’re one of them?” and we then see a shot of Roslin reacting — to something. There’s actually nothing that says these shots occur in sequence in the actual show — the teaser has clearly been edited so that we *think* Roslin is reacting to that line, but I’d bet real money Roslin isn’t even in the room when it is spoken. I think the teaser contains a clue as to which characters will be in that scene together, but I won’t get into it because it’s a semi-spoiler.
guess we will find out tomorrow night…!
@Jeff Jun 5th, 2008 at 5:16 am
You may be right. I must have heard it wrong. I thought I heard “You know about the final five, don’t you know you’re one of them?”
Oh well…perhaps it’s time for the hearing aid.
@Albot5000
In regards to our thoughts on how Mormonism influences the re-imagined BSG, there is an article on Beliefnet, The Theology of Battlestar Galactica. When asked if there was a concerted effort to move away from the LDS focus of the first BSG, Moore says:
I looked at the original series as mythos and the way it dealt with religion as sort of a global sense. I was aware that Glen had used Mormon influences and how he had created the cosmology, but I’m not that familiar with Mormon belief or practice.
It’s an interesting article.
Was looking for more opinions on the 5th Cylon and came accross this quote and article:
” Executive producer Ronald Moore strongly hints that the final Cylon is someone who’s not in this picture.”
http://io9.com/340986/secrets-of-battlestar-season-four-betrayed-in-new-photo
I still agree with Jeff, its Karl Agathon and this is an attempt to throw us off. What do you think?
Great Pod cast guys, I really enjoy it thanks and God Bless!