Daily Breakfast 538 – Of Men and Monkeys
In this show: the 7th anniversary of 9-11; Apes and evolution; Faith and science; Sarah Connor Chronicles; the new TV season; The Fringe.
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About the Author
Fr. Roderick
Fr. Roderick, a priest from the Netherlands, is the founder and CEO of the Star Quest Production Network and the host and producer of The Daily Breakfast, Catholic Insider and many other shows on www.sqpn.com.16 Responses to “Daily Breakfast 538 – Of Men and Monkeys”
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Father, I have been wanting to ask you in email, and sort of have a conversation with you about this, but just haven’t gotten around to asking, do you believe in aliens / extraterrestrial life and if so where do they fit in with God?
I, myself, have decided that I cannot, pretty much, believe in aliens because I am a jealous person and I don’t want to share my God with them; because if there are aliens my immediate question becomes “Well, who came first? Them or us? Who does God love more? Us or them? Did we fail God so badly that he tried again on another planet???” I become a jealous sibling and I don’t want to share my Father, so I sincerely hope there aren’t aliens because I don’t want to share. But if there are aliens, and I do hope there aren’t, I would be interested in knowing their religious beliefs and if they had any.
Adrianne
Why would God’s love for other creatures be a threat? God has love enough for the whole universe, including for you. Remember Jesus’ own words in Matthew 20: “Are you envious because I am generous?”
I’m thinking of, and I don’t have Bible references for any of this but, like, God gave Adam dominion over all animals — we are descendants of Adam, aliens are not (correct?) so how’s that work out? What would an alien’s purpose be? New Testament reference, I think, Jesus stated that God takes care of the sparrows in the sky and knows when one falls from the sky and then asks, “How much more greater are you than a sparrow?” I know from the Bible that God loves me more than a sparrow and other creatures on this Earth … The Bible doesn’t tell me if God loves me more than aliens He’s created on other planets. He created me from love, why did he create a whole other life on another planet?
Anyone else???
Adrianne
God created so much life, why would he be constrained to only one planet? And we are not the only rational, thinking beings God created. There are innumerable ‘extraterrestrials’, created by God, all unique, all capable of love: the angels.
I talked about this whole issue a few months ago on the Daily Breakfast; you might want to go back to those episodes for additional information.
Not a big deal for me. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it or if it comes to me…
I’m content to worry about the critical issues here in the USA that will be especially topical with the upcoming election.
-RepCom1140
As a scientist, I’m glad you have addressed the question of the compatibility of science and religion. In particular, that belief in evolution does conflict with belief in God. As you said, science tells us how, religion tells us why.
However, I’m not sure that the evolution problem is as common amongst us catholics as among protestants. Protestantism seems to lean towards more literal interpretations of scripture.
As a computer gamer, have you look at Spore? Besides the DRM nightmare, the game is clearly a game of intelligent creation. We create a spore that will change and in the end if things go right, it will go out in space and the game is won. Pretty much like the Civilizations game. Spore teach us something else. Our creations it talks about oh so much about its creators.
Hi, Christopher. I don’t think that belief in evolution conflicts with belief in God at all. Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3 stated that “A thousand years in your eyes are merely a yesterday” and “with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day”. This is pretty figurative language. Thus, six days of creation in God’s time (as mentioned in Genesis) could well be equivalent to billions of years in human time!
Anyway, the bible is not meant to be a book of science. It’s supposed to a book of love messages from God, letting us know how much He loves us and how He wants us to live our lives on earth.
I meant to write that belief in evolution does NOT conflict with belief in God.
I have no problem believing in evolution. I have a problem understanding how so many people deny the evidence and believe in creationism simply because Genesis says six days.
I also have a problem understanding how Christians can reconcile “Thou shalt not kill” with support for capital punishment, but that’s a discussion for another day.
Three points to illustrate the fact that the mainstream media (MSM) so often paints with a broad brush (i.e., invokes biased generalizations, thereby missing key points of distinction):
- So many in the MSM believe “evolution” and “Darwinism” to be synonymous. While they overlap in meaning, they are not exactly the same thing.
- Furthermore, evolution can be subdivided into microevolution (evolution within a species) and macroevolution (evolution from one species to another). NO ONE in the scientific community debates the fact that microevolution occurs; macroevolution, however, is another story. Again, this point is overlooked by the MSM.
- Finally, most in the MSM also equate “creationism” with “intelligent design”; while their undertones may be similar, there are many important differences between the two. Anyone with serious interest in this should really read “Darwin’s Black Box” by Michael Behe.
Jeff, you seem to be putting forward the same arguments used by the creationists.
By distinguishing evolution from Darwinism, are you simply saying that evolution must have taken place over Archbishop Ussher’s 6000 year age of the Earth?
New species are coming into existence all the time through macroevolution as you call it, just as species are becoming extinct. That’s the way God designed it.
Furthermore, Intelligent Design was found by a court of law to be a rebadged version of Creationism. (Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District)
The main point of my comment was not to provoke a discussion of evolution vs. creationism, but to agree with Father Roderick that there is no need to deny evolution or Darwinism just because one believes in God. Many people interpret the Bible so literally (despite its internal inconsistencies) that they ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence. I made the further point that creationism seems to be more widely believed by protestant Christians than Catholics; that Catholics can better see that Darwinism and God can live side by side. Is that true?
Good points, Christopher. Perhaps you are right that we shouldn’t get into the weeds. However, based on your response I feel compelled to clarify:
While evolution is the science, Darwinism involves the attitudes/assumptions of Darwin: survival of the fittest, “improving” the human race, etc. (Actually, Darwin’s writings are quite scary, in many senses.)
The fact that new species are *discovered* does not automatically mean that they have evolved from previously known species.
Finally…Roe v. Wade determined that a fetus does not have human rights. So, don’t always run to the lawyers to defend your position on things.
“Many people interpret the Bible so literally (despite its internal inconsistencies) that they ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence”
Unfortuately Jeff, your comment is all too true too many times. Long proven science(including evolution), facts, evidence, logic, common sense are definitely compatible & coexisting with faith/belief in God & Jesus.
Regardless of ones opinion of Darwins opinions that are outside of his scientific work, his theory of evolution was a landmark of science that has been subsequently proven time & time again. Of course it is not perfect(as we should not expect something well over 100 years to be) but it has withstood numerous rigorous scientific scrutiny to still be about 99% correct. That is amazing considering the huge amount of science and technology since it came out.
Darwin has been quoted out of context in an attempt to discredit his science.
Speciation is necessarily a difficult thing to observe in nature, but has been seen in laboratory experiments. For example William R. Rice and George W. Salt created two distinct species of fruit fly from a common ancestor population.
It wasn’t lawyers who found the evidence that Intelligent Design evolved from Creationism, although this evidence was accepted by the court.
Science and religion are not incompatible, despite what Richard Dawkins on one side and the creationists on the other say. The Church itself does scientific research through the Vatican Observatory.
Again, I don’t understand why so many people consider it heresy to accept scientific evidence. I am a scientist who believes in God and science.
Thanks for your viewpoint Christopher. I don’t think anyone that looks at this from on a objective fact based basis along with being a person of faith would disagree with you.
Unfortunately as we see not unlike what has happened in Islam a small minority of extreme fundamentalists in Christianity distort, twist & pervert the bible and faith for their own unchristian & unamerican agenda.
Interestingly the Catholic priest, author, sociologist and syndicated newspaper columnist Andrew Greeley has a column out today about these fundamentalists and some of what they would like to dictate on everyone. Here is a small excerpt followed by a link to todays column;
Andrew Greeley – September 17, 2008
“The so-called “fundamentalists” came into existence to destroy one book in particular — Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. As one of their 19th century leaders remarked, “If we don’t resist Darwin, we lose the Bible.”
Oh ye of little faith! Why must ye think that the power of the biblical stories depends on their literal, word-for-word inerrancy? Why can’t you see that those men and women who study it so closely actually enhance its wonder? Why instead must ye wander through the desert searching for the pillar of salt that was Lot’s wife? Why can’t ye understand that ye continue the battle between science and religion with thy concern about routing evolution from the classrooms? Don’t ye realize that ye reinforce the paradigm, so loved by thy friends in the national media, of the battle between science and religion?”
CLICK ON FULL COLUMN HERE:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/greeley/1167572,CST-EDT-greel17.article
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“Genesis Isn’t A Science Book”: Vatican To Study Evolution
Amazingly, immediately following this DB#538 Of Men & Monkeys show the Vatican’s official spokesman Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture made a major statement on this. Long time Catholic reporter, author, CNN Vatican analyst John Allen reports:
All Things Catholic by John L. Allen, Jr. – September 12, 2008
From time to time, Catholicism can be seized with fits of enthusiasm and veer toward one extreme or another. Over the long run, however, its instinct is usually to seek the sane middle, driven by what Pope Benedict XVI has called the Catholic genius for seeking “both/and” solutions to seemingly “either/or” problems.
In Rome this week, a blow was struck for the sane middle on the most vexed issue in the modern relationship between faith and science: the theory of evolution.
The man responsible was Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture and, in a certain sense, heir to Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini of Milan as the church’s great interlocutor with secular culture. Like Martini (and also, of course, like Benedict XVI), Ravasi is that rare prelate capable of holding his own with the best and the brightest of secular art, philosophy and science, not as an apologist but as a sympathetic partner in dialogue.
He brought that touch to his discussion of evolution on Tuesday.
“I want to affirm, as an a priori, the compatibility of the theory of evolution with the message of the Bible and the church’s theology,” Ravasi said.
Ravasi pointed out that Charles Darwin had never been condemned by the church, nor was his Origin of Species ever placed on the index of prohibited books…
STORY CONTINUES HERE:
http://ncrcafe.org/node/2122
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