TPS#169: Choose Life!
I will be headed out for a retreat in Colorado next weekend so there will be not be a regular TPS but look forward to a special edition! Until then here is what was occurred in Ep# 169:
- Return from Weddingpallooza
- Podsafe Music: Allison Crowe “Choose to be”
- Homily
- Politically Catholic
- Birthday Thanks
- SQPN / RA Fund Drive 2008-2009
- USTREAM LIVE SHOW
- Call Me (206)350-5630
Peace,
Fr. Bill Kessler
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Hello Fr Kessler
I’m not a native speaker so excuse me for my language.
As a European i’m always flabbergasted by the way you connect your country with your faith, I don’t understand. Faithful citizenship? I’m a catholic, I’m a christian, which means I try to live a life according to an example set by our founder. What’s the connection with America?
I myself try to make a difference in the culture where I am living. My country and my culture doesn’t feel like home. It doesn’t reflect the way I want to live.
Yours does?
Another question is about the focus on abortion. I’m not pro abortion. I think it’s murder but it’s the choice of individual people to do that. The only way to stop it is not forbid it (it will be done) but to give desperate people a choice. But it is a very difficult matter. What bothers me is that some people (Catholics) focus the election on abortion. It’s one of the problems.
I mean, you invaded several country’s on your hunt for terrorist’s, You caused a lot of collateral damage (as you call it). You prison people without even a form of trial (Guantanamo Bay). Your public health service is terrible. The anglo-american system you stand for is just gone under on his on greed.
I’m not anti-American but I don’t get it. And abortion is your big issue?
Can some American Catholic explain this for me?
From The American Council Of Catholic Bishops Faithful Citizenship:
________________________________________________________________
Political Responsibility Guidelines to Keep in Mind during Election Season
Parishes and other IRS-designated section 501(c)(3) church organizations are prohibited from participating in political campaign activity. Thus, certain political activities that are entirely appropriate for individuals may not be undertaken by church organizations or their representatives.
Activities to Avoid
In order to avoid violating the political campaign activity prohibitions, parishes, other church organizations, and their representatives should remember these guidelines:
* Do not endorse or oppose candidates, political parties, or groups of candidates, or take any action that reasonably could be construed as endorsement or opposition…
Also they write this:
“It is because faith and reason lead us to
respect human life at all its stages that we
seek to address in morally sound and effective
ways other serious threats to human
life and dignity. Faithful Citizenship cites
racism, use of the death penalty, resorting
to unjust war, failure to help those suffering
from hunger, homelessness, or lack of
health care, as well as unjust immigration
policies. These are serious matters, and if
we are serious about building a civilization
of love we will address them.
It would be refreshing if we could find candidates
whose records, party platforms, and
personal commitments embody the full
range of the Church’s social teaching, reasonable
as that teaching is. Unfortunately
that seldom happens.”
“Sometimes voters face two “anti-life” candidates
and find they are unable to vote for
either. Or after careful reflection, a voter
may decide to vote for the candidate less
likely to pursue a morally flawed position
and more likely to advance other authentic
human goods (Faithful Citizenship, no. 36).”
If one wants to be informed on what the American Council Of Bishops actually fully said in their comprohensive Faithful Citizenship documents then one should read all of it in it’s entirety and not put any stock in a few internet critics and spurilous rumors:
http://www.faithfulcitizenship.org/church/statements
Well that isn’t an answer really, is it? You quote a statement of the American bishops, but it still doesn’t explain any of the problems addressed by Sic.
As Sic mentioned, it sometimes is hard for Europeans to understand American culture, and so it is for Americans to understand European culture and background.
It might be the official position of the American church not to “not endorse or oppose candidates” but what else do you do by making abortion the one and only issue of the election??
I do agree with Sic, abortion is bad, yes I do find it outrageous what still happens to unborn life, but what about all the other issues Catholics can’t approve of either – like going into senseless wars, still practising death sentence, and so on?
I couldn’t agree more. I was in the States from over from the UK a couple of weeks ago, went to Mass in a major Cathedral in a big east-coast city and found some truly horrible literature at the back of the Church (placed in most churches in the city I was tole by some friends), including pictures of foetuses, totally misplaced, out-of-context quotes about Church Social Teaching on abortion and politics (ie, implying that Catholics were obliged to vote for a candidate that is pro-life at the the expense of all other issues), and basically accusing Obama of murder. These leaflets were NOT produced by the Catholic Church, but it was clear that noone had made any effort to remove them. And whilst there were some nominally balanced questionnaires of candidates available, there was absolutely nothing that talked about Catholic teaching on poverty, charity, access to healthcare, the death penalty, immigration, prison reform or anything.
I was absolutely horrified. I completely understand people having very strong views on the abortion issue, it’s Church Teaching, and I believe in that too, but the idea that it is the one issue that should determine everything is just incomprehensible from a European perspective. I understand we have different political cultures, but the idea that people are using the Catholic Church (although clearly against its own rules of impartiality) to mobilise people to vote for one party (whose position on issues of social justice is entirely at odds with the Church) is completely incomprehensible to me.
Yes choose life, but also think about choosing a decent quality of life for those people living in abject poverty in the US and around the world too.
What exactly is wrong with “horrible” literature in a Catholic church? The Church preaches Christ crucified…what could be more horrible than that?
Perhaps you are right, in that many Americans and Europeans can’t see eye to eye. I personally don’t understand the relativism, when the Archbishop of Canterbury basically kowtows to sharia law.
When was the last time any of you were in Iraq? I was deployed there last year, as a military physician. The truth is that American forces there (as well as in Afghanistan) are doing a WORLD of good, and are truly appreciated by the Iraqis and Afghans. You have no idea how much work goes into a single 24-hour period when you hear of no bombings in that part of the world.
Well, I don’t think, it is being a question of being in Iraq
I don’t mention Iraq to brag. I mention it because Operations Enduring and Iraqi Freedom have been unilaterally condemned (see also the Sunday Mass video blog) by so many people solely because of what they hear or read in the news–people who have never worn a uniform themselves. Believe me when I say that all the good news from the Middle East NEVER makes the front page.
One more thing on the USCCB. Is it me, or does anyone else feel that Faithful Citizenship is purposely worded in order to preserve the all-important tax exempt status?
Thanks all for the feedback. I apologize for my blunt way of putting things, that’s a bit of a cultural difference. Don’t be offended.
Last night I watched live the American election (I had night shift
) and I was really surprised by what’s going on. Really moving.
But I think my question still stands and I’ve read no answer. I get that the official policy for The American Council Of Catholic Bishops Faithful Citizenship is not to interfere. But my question was addressed to all the Catholics who have the opinion that abortion is (was) the issue of the election. Or to say it more blunt (sorry) You aren’t a good catholic if you vote for someone pro-choice. (because that’s the feeling I got).
This is a question, no judgment, can someone from his own opinion explain this to me?
To jeff
No I’ve never been to Iraq, so if you have the opinion that I’m only titled to an opinion when you’ve been there than you can stop reading.
Our country is also involved in the conflict, I know someone who has been there and I have a lot of respect for those people who make the best of a bad situation. But it was not your choice, you never decided to go there and help some poor iraqies. No, you’ve been send there to do a job, to get things done. And what is that job? When you have a positive view you could say that the job was to free iraq (and afganistan?) and to establish a democracy. We skip the terrorists (because the situation has only worsent) and we skip the oil part.
I think you need relativism, the war goes bad. Maybe it wasn’t a good idea at all. I don’t count death tolls but beside American death toll there are also native death toll, 500,000 ? Do you think they were all terrorists? Do they not have rights? I don’t blame you, no I respect you very much. But didn’t call Jesus to love our enemies? Naive? Maybe. But the Kingdom of God is not represented by an earthly power.
But to get practical, The war can not be won. Afghanistan has a long history of war (sad but true) And no one has ever won. So there will be relativism and talking in the end. With enormous costs.
This is my humble opinion and I try to live by it. Feel free to react.
Thanks
I think what’s wrong with ‘horrible’ literature in a Church is that it is claiming that the Church position is that you should vote Republican. Also, I think we tend to get a bit less emotive about things over here, and it wouldn’t be acceptable to use pictures or language like that, or to accuse people of having the blood of children on their hands. The abortion issue is still an issue, but it’s much more of a nuanced debate.
I am genuinely interested to hear if any pro-Democrat organisations produced literature to explain the case for voting Dem from a Catholic point of view. The people I spoke to were quite upset that Churches had partisan anti-Obama literature in them, but I don’t know if they had actually engaged on the issues themselves
Why so many pro-life Catholics backed Obama
BY ANDREW GREELEY(Syndicated Columnist, Author, Priest, Sociologist) November 5, 2008
It would appear from the pre-election polls that more than half of American Catholics voted for Barack Obama. How could they do that when their bishops ordered them to vote for John McCain? In fact, no such order was issued, though some bishops came pretty close to it. Most bishops were content with a somewhat obscure statement about the evil of abortion which also urged Catholics to consider all the items on the Catholic pro-life agenda.
Some years ago, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger issued a statement on the subject to which he added a footnote about cooperation in evil. Sometimes such cooperation can be “formal and direct,” as when one votes for a pro-choice candidate because one deliberately agrees with and supports that position. Other times, however, the voter does not approve of the candidate’s position on abortion but votes for him because of other “proportionate” reasons. Then the cooperation is “material and indirect.”
What might such a reason be?
It might have been that while the candidate did not reject abortion, he supported most of the other Catholic positions on life, i.e. he condemned unjust wars, the death penalty, torture, kidnapping, cruelty to immigrants that his opponents implicitly support.
Some bishops and priests argue that abortion is such a horrible evil that there can be no proportionate reason. That might be their opinion, but it goes beyond Catholic ethical demands. Another — and similar — stand might be that the Catholic voter would have to abstain from all politics since there are very few political leaders who support the whole list of Catholic life issues. Opposition to abortion does not by itself exhaust the moral obligations of the Catholic social ethic.
The pro-choice enthusiasts who think they have fulfilled their moral responsibility when they reduce that social ethic to abortion do not understand Catholic teaching. Abortion certainly violates Catholic respect for life, but so do many other actions that are common in many modern societies — like torture, the death penalty, unjust war, cruelty to the elderly, abuse of children, racial injustice — what the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin called the seamless garment of life.
If McCain were elected, we were told, he would have appointed judges who would have reversed Roe vs. Wade. Perhaps that would have happened, but we kid ourselves if we think that the present court would in fact do that. Moreover, if it did, state laws would continue to apply.
Ultimately, Catholics must strive to persuade others by the depth and power of their commitment to life issues. Ranting at others because they are “killing babies” may be emotionally satisfying, but it doesn’t change people’s minds. In a society like ours, one needs to build a coalition to change people’s minds on such an issue. Arguing with them and trying to impose the Catholic notion of natural law on them by political power won’t work.
Only living the whole Catholic social ethic, as difficult as that may be, will provide examples that may change the anti-Catholic prejudice that the most fanatical pro-lifers create. It will not be an easy task. But Catholics can only achieve any progress against abortion by the good example of their lives.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/greeley/1259897,CST-EDT-greel05.article
The above is the opinion of a priest who has donated several thousand dollars to the 2008 presidential campaign of Barack Obama.
Many bishops and moral theologians would reject his claim that the proportionality argument “goes beyond Catholic ethical demands”.
By the way, I think it is time to end the political discussions on this website. The elections are over, and I don’t want these heated discussions to go on and on.